What Will Be the Song of Summer 2025?
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Speaker 1:Now I'm going to pass the mic over to the actual ringmaster of this episode. Russ Martin is here. Hello, Russ. I have no idea really what we're doing today. I have only a very basic idea of what we're doing today, so I'm gonna let you take over from here.
Speaker 2:Louie, welcome to summer season.
Speaker 1:Yes. For some of us, not such a great season. Are you a summer boy?
Speaker 2:So I'm of two minds. I don't like the heat, but I do like working less.
Speaker 1:Right. Because of your school schedule. See, like, my working schedule doesn't change. In fact, I'm staring down the barrel of an incredibly stressful summer work wise, and I hate the heat. And New York, I think, is, like, particularly kind of a miserable place to be in the summer.
Speaker 1:Although many think that summer in New York is, like, this special magical season. I've never understood it.
Speaker 2:About that way.
Speaker 1:It's so hot. It's so humid. It's, like, confining in this crowded metropolis. Like, I just I hate being hot. I was sitting on the subway yesterday going uptown to see a show with Jack, and I was, like, sweating.
Speaker 1:The air conditioning wasn't on yet in the subway, but it was still, like, 78 degrees outside. I was like, oh god. A preview of just, like, sitting inside in the air conditioning for three months. But that doesn't mean that it's not a fun time for music. You know what I mean?
Speaker 1:So that's what we're here to talk about.
Speaker 2:That is what we are here to talk about. I basically wanted to do a song of the summer episode to get the two of us together to chat about what we think could possibly be the song of the summer this summer. It's a bonkers time to do it because we are recording this in spring.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:But we are going to do the bonkers thing, and we're going to place some bets on what we think might happen this summer, what will transpire throughout the warmer months, and who is actually going to end up on the Billboard songs of the summer chart.
Speaker 1:Can I ask a question before we do this?
Speaker 2:Yes. Absolutely.
Speaker 1:Why are we so obsessed with summer songs? Like, we never do song of the fall, song of the winter, song of the spring.
Speaker 2:Like, what Well, some have tried.
Speaker 1:Some have tried, but, like, why does that not stick? Like, what is it about summer that needs an anthem, that, like, demands its own brand of anthem?
Speaker 2:So I was reading back on this, and, of course, our pal, Chris Monanthi, has traced it back, wrote a piece in slate. This is something that is, like, kind of a 100 years old, but the debates of it really took off in the nineties Right. And then super super took off in the late two thousands. It's a relatively recent thing to talk about in the way that we talk about it. Right.
Speaker 2:But I think that it's a fun thing to debate because it's a visceral communal experience, and you hear songs in public in the summer in a different way. Mhmm. Mhmm. I'm from somewhere that has four seasons
Speaker 1:Right.
Speaker 2:That are quite distinct. Mhmm. And when you live in that type of a place, you notice music being played differently in the open air in the warmer months.
Speaker 1:Totally.
Speaker 2:Totally. I have a lot of, like, visceral summer memories of summer songs, and there I can see them, like, in time and place. I don't know if you have any of these, but, like, one for me is the summer that the white stripes broke. And I have a memory of being out to the gas station in the town that I'm from and hearing the white stripes out somebody's window. And that summer, like, you heard that song everywhere, and it's that exciting sparkling with
Speaker 1:a girl? Is that the one?
Speaker 2:Seven Nation Army.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. That was, like, second second wave.
Speaker 2:The second wave of the white stripes, but I fell in love with the girl. Like, that was a a cool song that lots of people heard. But Seven Nation Army was, like, inescapable, and I kept hearing it out of car windows and in public places. I think that is how this thing has come to be. Because you go to many countries around the world where it's warm and music is constantly being played out in the open air.
Speaker 2:Right? But Or LA. Yeah. Or LA, certainly. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Mhmm. But when it's cold, like, you don't hear music in public as much, and the mood in my city totally changes. I live in Toronto, and the city opens up in the summer in a way where it's quite closed during the winter, and I think that music plays a big role in that. Mhmm. And, yeah, it it is a visceral thing.
Speaker 2:I'm getting kind of excited talking about it, Lily.
Speaker 1:It's our most communal season. I think that's kind of the big part of it. Like, we all experience songs communally, like, especially now as we, like, feel more sort of separated in our little houses with our computers and all that kind of stuff. We do have, like, universal hit songs in all seasons, but I think summer is still the moment when we come together in the most frequent sense and hear songs together. Again, either experientially from a car window or in a club setting or, like, you know, hanging out in the park setting or we go to outdoor concerts.
Speaker 1:I just feel like the reason is it's the most communal season, and I think maybe it's the season that sparks the most joy for many. Let's just put it that way. Like, sunshine is associated with happiness, rebirth, etcetera. So I think that, like, there's also a specific, like, brand of song that feels like it should be the song of summer. Whereas I do think there are songs that are better suited to other seasons even if we don't call them, like, song of fall or whatever.
Speaker 1:So I guess those are some of the reasons I would imagine that summer gets a special battle royale over, like, what is the song of that particular season.
Speaker 2:Yeah. And I think that there was period, especially when these debates were really hot around the early twenty tens when Billboard started the songs of the summer chart, where it was kind of clear some years what the song was.
Speaker 1:But Right.
Speaker 2:I think it's actually maybe even more fun to debate now that there's not necessarily consensus songs of the summer. So my plan for the two of us is to, today, make these bets and then come back after Labor Day in the fall in September. Yeah. And we'll see who won based on the chart. But we will also get to have a conversation about what the summer was like for music and what the song of the summer was like maybe in our personal lives or for different groups of people and talk about how things are siloed or not.
Speaker 2:Who knows what the summer will bring? Last summer was so surprising in terms of what popped, so I'm so curious what's gonna happen this year.
Speaker 1:I was just thinking about last summer as, like, a great reflection of how, like, you can exist in different worlds and feel like different things are the biggest thing. Like, I just remember last summer, it felt like there was almost like a girls versus boys, and I don't mean that in, like, the gender I mean, like, girls being, like, cis girls, the whole LGBTQ community, and then there was, like, straight guys. And we had, like, completely different summer song experiences. Like, on one side, there was a group of people that were, like, seemingly completely ensconced in a battle royale between Drake and Kendrick Lamar that was eventually won by Kendrick Lamar. And I was aware that that was happening and, like, I liked not like us, but, like, to me, the the headline story was, you know, Sabrina Carpenter and Chapel Ronan, Charlie XCX, Brad Summer and all that kind of stuff.
Speaker 1:So, like, it just felt like you could just exist in entirely different universes, which obviously also describes our political reality these days. What was the actual Billboard crowned song of summer last year?
Speaker 2:Well, you have arrived at my next segment, which is a little quiz, and it is called The Heat Goes On.
Speaker 1:Okay. Clever. Like it.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna test your knowledge of song of the summer lore. Just a few questions. You wanna play?
Speaker 1:Yeah. Can I play it?
Speaker 2:What, Louis, is the first day of summer?
Speaker 1:May 22?
Speaker 2:Not even close, babe.
Speaker 1:June 22?
Speaker 2:Much warmer.
Speaker 1:Yeah. June 20?
Speaker 2:Yeah. That's right. The first day of summer in the Northern Hemisphere is June 20 according to the Old Farmers Almanac.
Speaker 1:Wow. I really, like, blocked this out because I hate summer so much.
Speaker 2:I feel May feels like the kickoff. I feel like, particularly, maybe in America, you go from Memorial Day. Memorial Day to Labor Day is sort of that's that's what the chart tracks, the songs of the summer Okay.
Speaker 1:So I'm not crazy.
Speaker 2:You're not crazy at all, but
Speaker 1:I'm surprised that you were able to, like, realize that I wouldn't be able to answer that question well. Like, okay. Cool. June 20. So you said.
Speaker 2:Recent guest of the show, our pal Anne Powers, was actually one of the first to gamify the song of the summer conversation. I read her 09/07/1999 critic's notebook in the New York Times in which she selects contenders for the 1999 Song of the Summer. Which of the following songs did she not list as one of the 99 challengers? Ricky Martin's Livin' Da Vida Loca
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Destiny's Child, Bills Bills Bills
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:TLC Unpretty Mhmm. Blink one eighty two, What's My Age Again? Or Mhmm. LFO, Summer Girls.
Speaker 1:Oh my god. This is really hard. Those all feel like very iconic songs. What were her criteria? Like, was it just about what was the biggest hit, or did she, like, sort of have, like, thoughts about how these songs should sound?
Speaker 2:Anne describes it. The singles that blare forth from car radios or boomboxes in parks and at the beach are the catcalls of a nation bearing its collective skin. With the pop scene in a giddy, fast moving, such quickly fading shout outs seem more resonant than usual.
Speaker 1:I don't know. Unpretty?
Speaker 2:No. Do you want the answers? It's actually LFO's Summer Girls.
Speaker 1:That doesn't make any sense. Why wouldn't that be on there?
Speaker 2:I I was very surprised. So I googled other nineteen ninety nine songs since the LFO was there, and she didn't mention it. What I might be thinking is that was quite a junior song, maybe not as general public. That was a song that was big, I think, for kids. You know?
Speaker 2:That was a huge song for me that summer. I think that that 1999 would have been the summer that I was 11 years old. I remember listening to that camping with my family.
Speaker 1:A number three hit, though. Yeah. Big song. Hot 100. Surprising, Anne.
Speaker 1:Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Ready for another question? Sure. What was the first ever song crowned as the song of the summer in real time? So Billboard started this chart in 02/2010, and these are all songs from that summer. They did go back and crown previous winners based on their Mhmm.
Speaker 2:Same criteria, I think, back to 1985, but this is the first one that was ever crowned at the end of a summer.
Speaker 1:Is it multiple choice, or do I just guess?
Speaker 2:No. I'm gonna give you options.
Speaker 1:Okay. Because I do have a guess.
Speaker 2:Oh, okay. Do wanna you yeah. Guess straight. See if you
Speaker 1:can just get it. California girls?
Speaker 2:You got it.
Speaker 1:Thank you. I'm so glad that you just knew that right off the bat. I didn't even need the the guess.
Speaker 2:The question that I have next is the one that you just asked of me. Can you name the song that Billboard crowned the 2024 song of the summer following its 2024 chart run?
Speaker 1:Not Like Us.
Speaker 2:You would think so.
Speaker 1:No? It's not. Is it like Benson Boone?
Speaker 2:In a way.
Speaker 1:I feel like it's like, is it Benson Boone or, like, Teddy swims? No. Is it multiple choice? Or
Speaker 2:It is not multiple choice. I You thought I could just get this? I did think you could just get you shocked me with getting Katy Perry from 2010. But
Speaker 1:Yeah. Kind of like but that Katy Perry is, like, hits is so good because it's, like, both the biggest song of that summer probably and also, like, a perfect song of summer.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Ultimate summer song.
Speaker 1:It was Joyride by Kesha. No. Just kidding.
Speaker 2:It was the biggest song of last year. Period. I think so. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But it's not Not Like Us. It's not Lose Control.
Speaker 2:Here's a hint. It was one of your best of pop songs.
Speaker 1:It was I Had Some Help? Yes. Oh my god. Taste.
Speaker 2:Not that.
Speaker 1:That's surprising. I didn't realize I had some help was bigger than Not Like Us.
Speaker 2:During the summer months.
Speaker 1:Wow. Good summer song too, I think.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Not Like Us, I have a memory of listening to in the first time, like, seeing it drop, and I was, like, walking through a park going to see a boy. It was Yeah. A real summer moment, that song, to me, much more so than I had some help, but I don't live in those quarters. So that's not my business.
Speaker 1:Normally, my stream live in those quarters either, to be fair. Okay. Crazy.
Speaker 2:Can you name, for my final question, five of the other nine songs that were on the final billboard chart published at the end of the summer. This will give us a sense of what we should maybe place bets on for this upcoming year.
Speaker 1:What do you mean last summer?
Speaker 2:So we are about to make bets for next summer. So to get a sense of that, we're gonna try to see what was on the chart from last summer. To win here, you gotta name five of the other nine songs from the top 10.
Speaker 1:Not Like Us.
Speaker 2:That's right.
Speaker 1:You got one. Benson Boone.
Speaker 2:That's right. Do you remember the title of this song?
Speaker 1:Beautiful Things. There we go. Lose Control by Teddy Swims.
Speaker 2:That's right. You're doing well.
Speaker 1:Espresso? You bet. That's four. That's right. I'm tempted to say good luck, babe, but I feel like that might be one of my little bubble bubble things.
Speaker 2:That's a bubble thing.
Speaker 1:Birds of a Feather.
Speaker 2:You got it.
Speaker 1:Yeah. What are the other ones?
Speaker 2:Bar song, Tipsy.
Speaker 1:Oh, yeah. Right.
Speaker 2:Million Dollar Baby. Mhmm. Please Please Please. Mhmm. Sabrina's the only artist with two in the top 10.
Speaker 2:The it was a Sabrina summer. Too Sweet?
Speaker 1:By Hosier. Okay.
Speaker 2:And that's it.
Speaker 1:Got it. Yeah. A lot of weird, like, strange men. There's just, like, these men. Right?
Speaker 1:Uh-huh. Like, who are these guys? Yeah. Teddy, Benson. Oh, like, they're just, who are these men?
Speaker 1:Who is listening to this? Show your This
Speaker 2:is also a particularly difficult task because if you look at this, it's about half and half in terms of what you might have been able to guess and not in the top 10. Right?
Speaker 1:Like Right.
Speaker 2:You could have maybe guessed that Post Malone would have had a hit. Kendrick, you could have guessed, like, maybe. You're like, he has name recognition. There's a lot going on there. Billie Eilish would have been an easy guess.
Speaker 2:But about half of these, Tommy Richmond, Teddy Swims, Benson Boone, I think would have been incredibly difficult in spring to predict.
Speaker 1:Right. Okay. But also, like, what's disturbing more than anything about the way the Billboard charts are going is, like, those songs are still on the top. Yes. Like, right now.
Speaker 2:That's correct.
Speaker 1:What is that about? That is some creepy creepy shit.
Speaker 2:That's like Black Mirror stuff. Why is that Benson Boots song still there? Alright. The next segment is called get rich or die frying
Speaker 1:Frying?
Speaker 2:In the summer heat. Yeah.
Speaker 1:I get it. I I got it.
Speaker 2:A joke is always improved by the way when explaining it. Right? Yes. Yeah. That's that's how jokes land.
Speaker 2:That's the rule. Alright. Mhmm. I want us to place some bets. We are betting.
Speaker 2:I wanna remind you on how well these songs are going perform on the charts this summer, not on how they will dominate the conversation. Notably, going through that list of 10, there was a name we did not say. During all of brat summer, Charlie did not have a song on that final list of 20.
Speaker 1:So No. She was only number one at Gorgeous Gorgeous.
Speaker 2:Indeed. Our bets are primarily here about commercial fortunes, not necessarily about cultural relevance or Mhmm. You know, putting our finger in the air. We can talk about that when we come back in September and see how off our summer was from the one that ended up on the chart. I think that will be interesting and illuminating.
Speaker 2:As a reminder, there are 20 positions on the songs of the summer chart. It is a running tally of the most popular titles based on cumulative performance for weekly streaming, airplay, and sales based on the Hot 100. So this is, like, it's a rolling version of the Hot 100, basically. Memorial Day through Labor Day. Louis, should we put anything on the line here?
Speaker 1:What do I not like doing? Think if I win, we have to do a maroon five episode of Pop Pantheon.
Speaker 2:And if I win, we get to do Zara Larsen, BB Rex, and Domo Better. Fine.
Speaker 1:Great. Fine.
Speaker 2:Gentlemen's handshake, we are doing roulette style betting as explained to me by my boyfriend. Artists are going to cost $20, and songs are going to cost $10. Sure. It is much more likely that we can say, we think that Beyonce will be a successful artist, then we could pick track 13 on an album and say that's going to go viral on TikTok.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Just for fun will be the song of summer twenty twenty five.
Speaker 2:How this is gonna net out is if an artist's song is in the top 10 at the end of the summer, you get double your money. If a specific song that you have bet on is in the top 10, you get four times your money. And if you correctly bet on the number one song of the summer, you get 10 times your money.
Speaker 1:Okay. Got
Speaker 2:it. We each have a $100 to bet. We can bet anyone, but I'm gonna go through a list of options. Basically, what I've done here is we're gonna address some popular musicians and acts in order of how high they are currently charting in the Hot 100. Sound good?
Speaker 1:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Alright. The first option that we can consider, of course, Kendrick Lamar. We have mentioned that he had a giant number two song of the summer hit last year in the midst of a stadium tour with SZA right now. Luther featuring SZA is a number one hit, has been on the chart for twenty two weeks. As we mentioned, things keep sticking around.
Speaker 2:Something else from GNX get hit. What do we see in terms of Kendrick's chart fortunes? Are you gonna bet any of your $100?
Speaker 1:I'm torn because as we talked about, it seems like these songs just sort of stick around. And I don't think that that's in the spirit of the song of summer, that a song that came out in November would be crowned song of summer. Or should I say a song by a huge artist. Like, I think of, like, an unknown sort of, like, underdog song bubbled up through the last six months that it became song of summer, that's acceptable. But, like, a song by, like, a marquee artist that came out in November that's been in the top 10 basically since then, being song of summer feels like the antithesis of what the song of summer should be, which gets into a bigger qualm I have about this chart, which is like, I think what this should be a spiritual choice more so than a metric choice
Speaker 2:Yes.
Speaker 1:In my opinion. But I know that's not the game that we're playing. I don't think that any other songs from Kendrick's GNX are gonna be the song of summer. I think it's it's considering what we know about how, like, albums perform long tail these days, I doubt that, like, a song that's been out since November is going to randomly just, like, turn into a massive hit. Also, I do think we should take turns betting.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's fair that I go first every time. Just saying. I'm just I'm just putting down. I'll put $10 that this song are we betting that it goes number one or that it ends up on the chart?
Speaker 2:Just that it ends up on the chart. If it it happens to be number one, you get more.
Speaker 1:So I am definitely willing to put $10 on this that Luther will be on this chart.
Speaker 2:Me too.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It seems inevitable. We're betting on top 10 or top 20?
Speaker 2:Top
Speaker 1:10. I think it's inevitable that it ends up there.
Speaker 2:I think so too. I'm also going to do that. So that brings us both down to $90. Yes. And we can reassess if we wanna go back and add more.
Speaker 2:The second artist that pops up is, of course, Die With a Smile featuring Lady Gaga. The chart juice here, against all odds, Lady Gaga's still in the top five in the Hot 100. Abracadabra also still on the Hot 100, but at 26, that feels out of steam to me. Yeah. She's going to be on tour.
Speaker 2:She's be pulling stunts. She has had luck with random songs going viral. Bloody Mary, of course. Wednesday season two does premiere sometime this summer. It's August 6.
Speaker 2:I'm thinking maybe she could do a remix album or a deluxe edition. I
Speaker 1:was gonna say, should I put $10 that how bad do you want me featuring Taylor Swift becomes the song of summer?
Speaker 2:I like, that wouldn't be a terrible bet.
Speaker 1:Maybe just to, like, keep things spicy, I might just do that. But the thing is, what I'm starting to realize when talking about this is that Billboard needs to do something different here because if die with a smile is, like, in the top five songs of summer, like, that is bullshit. I'm sorry. That's not real. That song came out thirty six weeks ago and has been a hit ever since.
Speaker 1:Even if that song ends up as number three on the summer song chart on Billboard, no one's gonna associate that song with the 2025. So this chart is flawed. This chart is deeply flawed, I feel. Don't you agree?
Speaker 2:I think that there are flaws in all charts. There's flaws in all, like, algorithms or, like, mathematic solutions to talking about cultural things. But if I look at last year's top 10, I think that a lot of those songs were reasonably within the world. You know?
Speaker 1:So here's my question. Am I better off putting $20 on the notion that Lady Gaga will appear on this list or putting $10 on some random ID like remix. Or should I put $10 on both of these songs? One being a sure bet that die with a smile is going to end up on this chart. It seems more than likely considering that songs seem to stay in the top 10 for, like, three years at this point.
Speaker 1:Like, that's my question. Do I split my 20? I don't know. No. Because I think if I put the 20 it's so hard.
Speaker 1:Because if I put the 20 on Lady Gaga, like, I'm gonna win. But if I split it, there's a bigger chance that I'm not gonna win. What happens if you bet on an artist and they have two songs that get into the top?
Speaker 2:You would get double.
Speaker 1:Would you?
Speaker 2:I think so. If
Speaker 1:you No. Because I think I don't think you should because that would mean that kind of, like, you took the easier bet by betting that they would appear there, so you shouldn't get rewarded.
Speaker 2:Or but the an alternate way of looking at it is Sabrina Carpenter. If I bet on her and she is there twice, that means that I chose a winning horse.
Speaker 1:No. Because I think that it means that, like, you took an easier way to get the $20 than if you had to bet on the individual songs themselves.
Speaker 2:I'll always take an easy way, the $20.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But I'm just saying that I don't think we should play it that way. I don't know what the rules are, but I kinda feel like there should be a penalty for, like, taking that safe way out. Because if I bet $20 that Lady Gaga is gonna be in this, I'm definitely gonna win. Whereas if I split my $10, then I have, like, a bigger chance of failing, but a bigger chance of reward given the system.
Speaker 2:I'm going the easy route. I'm gonna put $20 down on the table that Lady Gaga will be somewhere in the top 10 of the songs of the summer's chart at the end of the summer. What are you gonna do?
Speaker 1:I'm torn between, like, doing what I know is gonna happen versus, like, doing something fun. Yeah.
Speaker 2:That's how I feel anytime that we, like, bet on something. But, like, you always take the strategic route when we do the Grammys. It's interesting.
Speaker 1:Now more strategic, but I but but for the juice of this episode and this game, I feel as though I need to, like, take some risks.
Speaker 2:Do it.
Speaker 1:Alright. So I'll just do it for fun. I'm gonna bet $10 that Die With A Smile ends up here and also $10 that how bad do you want me featuring Taylor Swift also ends up on this list. A completely hypothetical song that probably will never exist.
Speaker 2:What I'm gonna do is I'm gonna put it down as how bad do you want me, and I'm gonna give you the money if any format of that
Speaker 1:is But I don't think How Bad Do You Want Me is gonna end up on this list unless she puts Taylor Swift on the song. I just wanna be clear. But I will take that just in the off chance that I'm wrong.
Speaker 2:The next option to discuss, Drake. Now, you and I recently wrote off sexy songs for you as a step down.
Speaker 1:I wish we had recorded that episode one week later than we did. I would have had a slightly amended take at that point.
Speaker 2:Right after we exited the studio here.
Speaker 1:Mhmm. The studio.
Speaker 2:Nokia became a genuine hit.
Speaker 1:Where the fuck to function? Where fuck to function? The way I feel right now, I feel like we need to be all alone.
Speaker 2:It is currently in the top five in the Hot 100. Drake has confirmed that he is working on a solo album last month. Obviously, eyes are gonna be all over him seeing what is gonna happen next.
Speaker 1:I'm putting $20 that Drake is gonna end up on this list because I think either Nokia's gonna keep rising and become, like, a massive hit, which seems like more and more likely, or he's gonna drop something else that's, like, a huge I just feel like all of a sudden, I'm feeling like Drake fever's back. I retract everything I said in the previous episode. I'm putting $20 that Drake ends up on this list for sure.
Speaker 2:Okay. I'm gonna put $10 on Nokia. Can I put another $20 on Drake?
Speaker 1:Yeah. I think you could do whatever the fuck you want. But, like, how does that work then? Like, then you get both?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You get
Speaker 2:because it plays both best.
Speaker 1:Whatever. We don't know. How many gay people does it take to plan a game with numbers? Like, literally. I think in the final episode, Kai has to, like, come on and, like, tell us what we did wrong.
Speaker 1:I know there are listeners out there that are probably, like, screaming right now. Okay. So you're putting 10 on Nokia and $20 on Drake. And then, basically, that means that, like, if it's Nokia or it's some other random Drake song, you win either way. No.
Speaker 1:This isn't fair because I don't think you can do this. Because then why wouldn't we all bet, like, $20 also on Kendrick Lamar if we know that Luther's gonna end up there?
Speaker 2:Well, he could've done that too, but he didn't of it.
Speaker 1:No. I think you have to choose. I think you have to choose. You have to choose. It's not fair.
Speaker 2:Alright. I'm I'm putting $10 on Nokia. Are you keeping track of how much money you got left,
Speaker 1:Lou? Yeah. I have $50 left, and I'm already, like, maybe I have too little money left.
Speaker 2:And I have $60 left. Okay. Alright. Chapel Roan, Pink Pony Club, still in the top five. The Giver has tumbled to 61 after six weeks on the chart.
Speaker 2:As I said from
Speaker 1:the beginning, that song is a chop and a flop. Just kidding. Obviously, I didn't say. I was like, this is gonna be her first number one. That's why no one should ever ask us, like, what are your predictions?
Speaker 1:Like, I'm never right. Except I we were right about Sabrina Carpenter becoming a superstar. That's the only thing we've ever been right about.
Speaker 2:This is not the major hit that we were expecting it to be. I was thinking that we were gonna have new music rolling out over the summer. It's not clear whether that's happening other than the vinyl pressing of The Giver has a b side on it. Are you gonna put any money on Chapel cashing in on the summer she had last year?
Speaker 1:Again, I feel frustrated because I do think Pink Pony Club is gonna stick around on this chart now that it's gotten to this place. But, like, it's by no means the song of summer for 2025. This song came out in 2020. And if anything, it was the song of summer of last year along with, like, seven other Chapel Road songs. Well, first of all, let me say this.
Speaker 1:I don't think Chapel's gonna put more music out over the summer. Okay. I'm getting a vibe from her that she's picky about when she releases music. Mhmm. And also to keep my money and keep this interesting, I'm gonna not put money on Chapel in general, but I feel like I'd be an idiot not to bet on this song ending up there.
Speaker 1:But I guess it's at number six right now. I have to imagine it's, like, on the descent
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And that there's gonna be new things that enter the fray between now and then. So okay. I'll skip Chapel this summer. Chapel had her summer last summer. What are you doing?
Speaker 2:Oh, I'm passing. Okay. Good. Morgan Wallen.
Speaker 1:I'm putting $20 that Morgan Wallen ends up on this chart. He's no question. I would be a fool. I'd like, that's just good money.
Speaker 2:He currently has two songs in the top 10, I'm the problem and I ain't coming back featuring Post Malone, which debuted at number eight. That is new. His album drops May 16. It does contain a song with Tate McCray of Canada.
Speaker 1:Here's a question I wanna ask about our system as we, like, build this game in motion. Should we get more return based on how high up on the chart these songs end up or these artists end up?
Speaker 2:It was a a thought that I had that we could get a certain number.
Speaker 1:Well, you did you we are getting more if it gets number one. Right?
Speaker 2:We are.
Speaker 1:Yes. I wonder if we should have, like, echelons. Like, if it gets in the top five, you get a certain amount. And if it gets in the top 10, you get a certain amount, maybe?
Speaker 2:To be honest, I just didn't wanna do the math on it, because I it would open me up to more problems, but I could potentially, you know, make my boyfriend do it. He's really good at math.
Speaker 1:How much are we getting if the song gets in the top 10? Like, what's our return on on a song that gets in the top 10?
Speaker 2:So the rules that I have set up is if you get a specific song, you get four times your money. Yeah. And if you bet on the number one song, you get 10 times your money.
Speaker 1:Okay. What if you get four times if it gets in the top ten and six times if it gets in the top five?
Speaker 2:We can do whatever.
Speaker 1:I think that sounds good. That makes it a little spicier, I think. Because then you have to you have to try to understand, like, whether which part of the chart it's gonna end up in, which is way more confusing, I think.
Speaker 2:Say that again so that I can write it down for September me.
Speaker 1:I think we should get six times our return if the song or artist ends up in the top five and four times if it ends up in the top ten and ten times if it gets to number one.
Speaker 2:Alright. I hope I understand that come September.
Speaker 1:This is why this is a music podcast, not, like, an economics podcast.
Speaker 2:Hey. I'm pretty good at money. I do do the budget for this show.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You're a genius at money. That's why you're here, because you're a genius at money. Okay. I'm putting $20 on Morgan Wallen.
Speaker 1:No question.
Speaker 2:I am putting $10 on I ain't coming back.
Speaker 1:Oh, okay. Interesting. You feel like that's on its way. You feel like we're about to have I had some help part two.
Speaker 2:I'm willing to place $10 on the table for it. I think that's smart money. You're putting $20 on Morgan Wallen.
Speaker 1:For sure. I think if it's not this song, it's gonna be something. Because he has an album coming out, and, like, we know how Morgan Wallen albums go.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna throw $10 on Morgan featuring Tate, question mark, as well.
Speaker 1:Oh, wow. Okay. That's spicy. That's spicy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Can't get herself into the fucking top 10 of the of the chart no matter what she does. You just feel like the synergy between these two seminal artists is going to be explosive enough to get them both over the line.
Speaker 2:To quote the first blockbuster of this season, when you dance with the devil, sometimes he follows you home.
Speaker 1:Okay. I know you're centerpilled at the moment.
Speaker 2:Swerving into Tate McRae, do you wanna put any money on sports car? It's a minor hit. You're currently 25.
Speaker 1:No. I do not wanna put money on sports car. I mean, sports car is probably gonna be, like, one of the songs of summer in my house.
Speaker 2:Uh-huh. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Sports Car in serious contention for my top five songs of 2025, personally.
Speaker 2:Alright. Let me throw a new option at you. Doce's anxiety has cracked the top 10. It has spent seven weeks on the chart.
Speaker 1:Solo, no mojo. I bounce back, no pogo. Unhappy, no homo. New brands, no logos.
Speaker 2:There is also a possibility that Doji could release something good.
Speaker 1:Oh god. The anxiety conundrum. It's like, yay. So happy for her, but, like, boo, never wanna hear this song ever again. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Anxiety does seem to be building steam. Right? But, like, is anxiety, like, at its peak right now, or is it only up from here? That's what I can't totally decide. Yeah.
Speaker 1:But and, like, no matter what, like, the success of anxiety seems to, like, set the table for a a bigger hit maybe.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:It's a smart thing to do if you're betting on Doce is to bet on Doce and not bet on an individual song, it seems like to me. But then there's, like, a huge chance she doesn't release anything else, and then anxiety I don't know. You go first.
Speaker 2:So I'm placing $10 on anxiety. I have now spent $70. I got 30 left.
Speaker 1:I'll put $10 on anxiety too. I kinda feel like that seems like it's gonna keep growing to me. The fact that it's not good and popular means it's just gonna keep getting more popular. Like, see Teddy Swims, Benson Boone.
Speaker 2:Exactly.
Speaker 1:It's just inevitable.
Speaker 2:Alright. I have 30 left. I have 20. You have 20. Okay.
Speaker 2:So let me run you through some options on how to spend the rest of the cash. Okay. Good. Ed Sheeran's Azizam has thus far peaked at 28, not the chart juggernaut.
Speaker 1:Swap.
Speaker 2:Ed's album not dated, but he's teased it's coming out this year. Could Ed get something going? Ed Sheeran has had this type of massive chart song in the past. Mhmm. Longshots also, a Lord Summer, Miley Cyrus's album's coming out, Haim, Benson Boone's putting out another album from last summer.
Speaker 2:That could have juice. Ted Teddy Swims, Shaboozy. Lana Del Rey recently peaked at 90.
Speaker 1:See, to me, I think it's gonna be something we don't see coming at all. So can I bet on an idea, like, as opposed to a person?
Speaker 2:Yeah. What you thinking?
Speaker 1:Like, random TikTok. No.
Speaker 2:Coming on the horizon with more music this year, the the long list includes Ed Sheeran, Lana Del Rey, Miley Cyrus, Haim, Kesha, Addison Rae, Maren Morris, Cali Uchis, Benson Boone, Pink Pantheris, Maybe Cardi B, Nicki Minaj.
Speaker 1:You also have not mentioned the number three song in the country, a song I have never heard in my entire life called Ordinary by somebody named Alex Warren.
Speaker 2:Yes. A influencer, TikToker, YouTuber, that is a popular song. You could totally bet on
Speaker 1:it. See, this is what I'm thinking. Like, this is where I wanna I wanna spend my next 20 on, like, this kind
Speaker 2:of thing. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Like, what is next year's Teddy Swims lose control? You know what I mean? What is next year's beautiful things or this year's beautiful things? Like, what is Mutt by Leon Thomas? Look at that.
Speaker 1:That's what I'm wondering about. What is all the way by Big x the blog featuring Bailey Zimmerman?
Speaker 2:It's interesting because Pop Pantheon is, generally speaking, a show about pop stars. And right now, the biggest pop songs on the Hot 100 are often not made by pop stars, but just people you've never heard of.
Speaker 1:Who have big TikTok songs. It's like that Popcast episode that just came out. That's how you get hits these days. You just, like, randomly catch a trend on TikTok. Like, that's how this all happens.
Speaker 1:I'm looking over here. I'm looking at the Marias. I'm looking at Miles Smith. I'm looking at Jesse Murph. Whoever that is has a song called Blue Strips that this week leapt from number 81 to number 35 on the hot 100.
Speaker 1:Yeah. You got me
Speaker 2:That's crazy. I like Zach Top's mustache. I don't know if I'd like his politics.
Speaker 1:I'm gonna put $10 on Jesse Murph's blue strips.
Speaker 2:Hell yeah, Louie. I love this.
Speaker 1:I've never heard of this person in my life. Jesse Murph, blue strips. Put me down. Watch me win.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Totally.
Speaker 1:I'm sorry. That's a huge leap. 81 to 35?
Speaker 2:Massive. Yes. Only the second week on the chart.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's crazy. She's exploding. Jessie Murph Summer. It's about to be Jessie Murph Summer.
Speaker 1:This person was born in 02/2004.
Speaker 2:Woah. Had almost graduated from high school.
Speaker 1:Yeah. She was discovered uploading vlogs and covers to TikTok and YouTube. Her sound spans multiple genres but is rooted in country. Okay. This girl's gonna have the number one song of the summer.
Speaker 1:No question. It's literally about to be Jessie Murph summer. She had a song with Jelly Roll that peaked at number 35. She had a song with some artist named Co Wetzel that peaked at number 22. She's been around.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna spend $20 on Benson Boone.
Speaker 1:Really?
Speaker 2:I think so.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm picking another random from here because I think that's my best bet forward. Like, I really think it's gonna be something crazy.
Speaker 2:I love that strategy. I'm I'm going safe as possible because I don't get hurt by my heart here as I do when we try to predict other things.
Speaker 1:Here's another one for you. Here's another one that could be worth it, but I don't have the money to spend, which is, like, some Gracie Abrams song.
Speaker 2:Yeah. I don't so I only have $10 left. I can't get an artist. I'm gonna go Benson Boone over Gracie Abrams because of the patriarchy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. But Benson Boone actually has put out I mean, I don't wanna dissuade you, but I do think Benson Boone has, like, put out music since beautiful things
Speaker 2:And it's all vlogging. Is that? Yes. So 100%, I'm just
Speaker 1:Although there's a song called in the stars that has a billion streams on Spotify. What is that? I feel insane sometimes.
Speaker 2:Like Me too.
Speaker 1:I'm just like, what is all of this shit? That's been the more interesting part of this episode to me is like, wait. What are all these songs? What is In The Stars? Was that a big song?
Speaker 1:Hold on. I'm doing my Wikis. In the stars peaked at number 82 on the hot 100, but has 1,000,000,000 streams. But everything that's come after on his seminal record fireworks and roller blades. That is the real name of that album.
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:The highest charting song is something called slow it down, which peaked at number 32, and he's put out numerous songs and that have not gotten above that. So, anyway, go with your heart, but I kinda think Gracie could if Gracie hit hit the right thing
Speaker 2:Mhmm.
Speaker 1:Like, I'm tempted to do a little trade and, like, maybe put $20 on a random Gracie Abrams song. But I don't know. I'm also thinking, like, who are all these people? Like, who is Miles Smith? What about the Marias?
Speaker 1:Everyone's talking about them.
Speaker 2:Yeah. So I'm thinking about spending $10 on no one noticed. I'm looking at the Spotify weekly chart, and the Maria's have the biggest gain in the, like, top 50. I like that sound.
Speaker 1:Well, it's like they they got sampled on the Selena Gomez album. And then
Speaker 2:Oh, they're they're fully featured on that.
Speaker 1:Yeah. And then, like, they've got this song. And I don't know. Just Jack texted me randomly yesterday being like, what do you think about the Maria's? Like, you know, these are signs.
Speaker 1:What about Raven Lanay?
Speaker 2:I would love for that to happen. Raven Lanay, I think Julian brought that as one of the best pop, I when we did that
Speaker 1:last year. Actually, I think it was, Jason.
Speaker 2:Has been steadily rising, increased profile, and that on the Spotify chart is moving up as well. That's on the Hot 100. I think Raven Luna's first hot 100. I think some some fun money there.
Speaker 1:Russ, what do you know about Russell Dickerson or Forrest Frank? Two artists that debuted at number seventy one and seventy two respectively on this week's hot 100.
Speaker 2:Oh, wow. Forrest Frank is looking very Christian.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Well, we're in a really Christian moment. Woah. He does look Christian.
Speaker 2:Yeah. He got pictures, like, with his blonde wife and their little smiling baby.
Speaker 1:Yeah. It's little scary. Oh, so he so he's been around. He's he's on his third album.
Speaker 2:He has an album called child of god.
Speaker 1:And child of god too.
Speaker 2:And then people ask.
Speaker 1:And then heaven and then heaven on my mind, of course. And also god is good EP.
Speaker 2:And then the number one question that people ask when they Google this guy is, is Forrest Frank religious? We need reading comprehension.
Speaker 1:Okay. I'm just saying those two men, whoever that is, I don't know who Russell Dickerson is. He's kind of hunky. He's gotta be country country guy. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Country pop artist. He's my age. He's 37, and I'm 38. He's close to my age, and he has a song charting happens to me, number 71. But he's had a lot of songs that have charted, I guess.
Speaker 1:Okay. So he's like a country. He's a country dude. So I'm not betting on them. I think, like, they're too low.
Speaker 1:I wanna kind of spend some money on Gracie. I have a I have a feeling about this. But if I do that, I need to find money somewhere. Like, it does that mean how do I have to take my $10 off? How bad do you want me featuring Taylor Swift?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:You gotta keep that bet, Lou.
Speaker 1:Ugh. This would be so much more fun. Sorry. Like, Billboard Jason Lipshitz, if you're listening to this. Like, we need to rejigger this chart so that it only counts songs that came out after a certain point.
Speaker 1:I think that would be a really good adjustment. Like, I think all the songs need to have, like, dropped at a certain point. Although, I guess that would be a problem because, like, what if a song, like like, again, like, an unknown artist song just kinda bubbles up?
Speaker 2:Totally.
Speaker 1:But what about, like, they can't have hit the top 10 before a specific one? I feel like that would solve a problem. That would get, like, Luther and Die With A Smile out of here. You know what I mean?
Speaker 2:Even if it was the they couldn't have hit the top 10 by the calendar year, that would get rid of some of the the stuff that is
Speaker 1:I feel like that would really help us. Because I feel hamstrung by having to include Luther and Die With a Smile here. But I could be playing a faster and looser game here.
Speaker 2:But you can play a faster and looser game because if you look at what was in the top 10, last year, they were fairly new songs. Were they not?
Speaker 1:No. Like, what okay. What was the hot 100 top 10 in April 2024? Like, what was at this time last year. Yo.
Speaker 1:Here's April 27. Too sweet was number one. Like that was number two. Beautiful things, lose control, Texas hold them, loving on me espresso. That was the week espresso debuted.
Speaker 1:We can't be friends, stick season by Noah Khan, and Saturn. Saturn. So, yeah, like, a bunch of these songs were there at this point. Two sweet, beautiful things, lose control, espresso. Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So almost half. Yeah. I think we would be stupid not to put Luther in die with a smile here. If Luther is not in the top 10 by the time we do this wrap, like, I think it will still be there by the when we do this wrap up episode.
Speaker 1:Die with a smile, maybe, because it's almost a year old. Right? Or are they, like, the same amount old?
Speaker 2:Die with a smile came out in August. Luther was after that, I wanna say.
Speaker 1:I wanna put money on Gracie. Okay. So here's what I'm gonna do. I'm gonna switch my 20 on Drake to 10 on Nokia. K.
Speaker 1:And then I'm gonna put 20 on some Gracie Abrams song.
Speaker 2:And that is it for your money.
Speaker 1:If I get this Jesse Murph thing right, I feel like I deserve everything. Like, I deserve everything that's ever existed in the world.
Speaker 2:I'm putting $10 on the Maria's and 20 on Benson Boone. That 20 on Benson Boone is poorly spent money, but I'm just
Speaker 1:I know. I'm a little bit I'm a little perplexed on that. But I don't wanna discourage you. I'm just, like, I don't totally get that considering that his track record like, Benson Boone is giving one hit wonder to me.
Speaker 2:But I agree. I agree. Do you know what? Okay.
Speaker 1:No. But I don't wanna discourage you.
Speaker 2:I'm gonna spend $10 on whoever Alex Warren is.
Speaker 1:Okay. Right. That seems smart. Yeah. Yeah.
Speaker 1:The fact that neither of us put money on her is crazy.
Speaker 2:That's in the top five.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That you someone should be doing that.
Speaker 2:It's spent eleven weeks on the chart thus far. I'm also just I'm not totally sure why I'm doing this, but Gigi Perez, Sailor Song, I'm gonna put $10 on that.
Speaker 1:Who's that?
Speaker 2:So Gigi Perez, this is a viral song, I believe, a YouTuber from Jersey.
Speaker 1:But Okay.
Speaker 2:I don't know, man.
Speaker 1:Yeah. That's yeah. Listen. You're probably like, this is a better bet to make than some of the other stuff we would say. This is a better bet to make than how bad do you want me featuring Taylor Swift.
Speaker 2:Yeah. But if that happens, it's going to number one.
Speaker 1:Oh my god. For sure. That's like a high risk, high reward bet. Like, very high risk. Okay.
Speaker 1:Before we finish, I just wanna say, is there any like, just spiritually, song of summer vibes, artists that, like, could come back that we're, like, really not thinking about that could just, like I don't know. Like, is there somebody you know what I mean?
Speaker 2:We didn't spend money on Lorde.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't see it. I think What Was That is probably the most commercial song she's got in her arsenal, and that's gonna peak at, like, number 39. Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I don't know. I mean, it when we have our discussion about, like, our personal songs of summer or, like, summer ecosystems, I feel like we'll probably be talking about Lord somewhere.
Speaker 2:Well, do you think Sabrina is gonna stay quiet?
Speaker 1:I do, kind of.
Speaker 2:Yeah. Right? Like, that that that's the smart move for her, I think, is to give everyone
Speaker 1:a minute. That bonus edition album. Like, I I don't know. I just think, like, she's had such a good track run. Like, unless she's got, like, the best song ever, and it somehow doesn't fit into her next I don't know.
Speaker 1:I just feel like I could see her doing something, like, later this year, but I just kinda feel like it's a little soon. She had such a good run.
Speaker 2:We didn't talk about Lola Young messy.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I thought about that. I I thought about it too, but
Speaker 2:it feels like the tail end of that virality to me.
Speaker 1:Yeah. I agree. It just like, I'm looking at its chart stuff right now, and I'm like, it seems to be falling.
Speaker 2:Why is Iris by the Goo Goo Dolls
Speaker 1:on Yeah. Like, what like, should we pick, like, a random running up that hill? Like, should we be considering, like like, what if Livin' La Vida Loca comes back for a second round? Should we go out on Live in La Vida Loca?
Speaker 2:Yes. Before we do that, I wanna say, a, this was deliriously fun as the summertime should be. Thank you for doing this with me.
Speaker 1:Once we figured out what we were doing, it really took off.
Speaker 2:I'm hoping that we can do this in the future. And in the future, we can bring in our patrons and maybe Yeah. Do some version of this. So if you have a master plan out there of thinking how we could do that, a fun idea
Speaker 1:Also, you would know how to play games better that have rules.
Speaker 2:Than than us. Yeah. Let us know. Let us know. Neither of us bet, but I thought that it would be fun for us to do betting.
Speaker 2:An absolute delight. Let's go out on Ricky Martin.
Speaker 1:Yes. Live in La Vida Loca.
Speaker 2:Gay King.
Speaker 1:Yeah. Was gonna say, pride month incoming. Russ, bye. Bye,
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